Cracked with Chevonne Ariss

Capturing Spirit with Ellen Van Dijk of Glas Atelier Ellen

• Ellen Van Dijk - Glas Atelier Ellen • Season 4 • Episode 51

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 Hi friends and welcome back to Cracked with Chevonne Ariss!
Today for episode 51 of Cracked I’m joined by Ellen Van Dijk . She’s a stained glass artist based in The Netherlands best known for her  photo realistic portraits. Drawing and painting portraits since childhood, her love for drawing and the desire for creative expression has been present for as long as she can remember. The combination of portraiture and learning to make stained glass windows brought her to where she is today. Today we’re talking about her personal experience with heartfelt portrait commissions, travel adventures of teaching, her in person classes as well as her online classes, and a couple really great glass paining glass hacks! To see more of Ellen's work, her instagram is  @glasatelierellen  and her website is glasatelierellen.com.
For the Cracked Patreon page members Ellen is offering 15% off of her online courses. The link to that is always in my bio or the show notes!
Honorable mentions from this episode:
Link to Ellen's workshops:
glasatelierellen.com/workshops
 Christina Alvner - 
@stationschris
Derek Hunt
@DerekHuntglass
The bellow that she uses for blowing away dust while painting:
amazon.com/Rollei-Tornado-Blower-Bellows-Camera
Lamberts
bendheim.com
Jaslo Polish hand blown glass
jaslo-glass.pl/en/
Where Ellen buys her glass and lead:
fenixglas.nl
enixglasexport.com
Stained glass windows of the St. Jans-kerk in Gouda, the Netherlands:
wikipedia.org
Favorite Glass artists:
Rianne Willemsen
@rianne_willemsen_stainedglass
Laura Savry-Cattan
@laura.savrycattan
Keij Sakai
@keij_takai
Abel Macias
@abelmac
Alba Fabre Sacristán
@albfs 

 

 

 

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Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

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SPEAKER_00:

Hi, friends, and welcome back to Cracked with Siobhan Aris. Before we dive in, I need to thank our wonderful sponsors. First is a company called Kids Art Box. This one is for any of my listeners who have a child in your life, whether it be your own or not. It's creative art projects delivered monthly. I just finished filming a video where I reviewed a box that came from my daughter, who is eight, based on work by the artist Virginia Starrett. It was really fun. Thank you for watching. And you all know I love Canfield Technologies, the makers of the best flux as far as I'm concerned. Sodermate 11 is my top choice. It's a water-based, highly active, liquid flux formulated to provide rapid cleaning, quick action, and excellent wetting of solder with a minimum of residue. Find out more at canfieldmetals.com. And finally, Wismac Glass. The Paul Wismac Glass Company has been making gorgeous quality sheet glass for artists and designers for over a century. Learn more about Wismac art in kiln glass by visiting their website at wismacglass.com and also by following them on Instagram at wismac underscore glass. That's W-I-S-S- Today on Cracked, I'm joined by Ellen van Dijk. She's a stained glass artist based in the Netherlands, best known for her photorealistic portraits, drawing and painting portraits since childhood. Her love of drawing and the desire for creative expression has been present for as long as she can remember. The combination of portraiture and learning to make stained glass windows has brought her to where she is today. We'll be discussing her personal experience with heartfelt portrait commissions, travel adventures of teaching, her in-person classes, and her as well as for online classes and Ellen is going to share with us some really great glass painting glass hacks. Let's get into it. Join me as I crack it all wide open.

UNKNOWN:

Music

SPEAKER_00:

Hi. How are you today?

SPEAKER_02:

I'm good. How are you?

SPEAKER_00:

I'm good. Thank you. I was telling my husband before we started, a lot of the articles that I read about you that I was trying to do research and look around, they're all written in Dutch. And we were laughing about how with Dutch, the cadence is similar to English a little bit. But it's one of the most difficult languages to pronounce for us. Have you tried it? No, I mean, yes and no. Everybody that I've spoken to that lives in the Netherlands, though, speaks perfect English. I

SPEAKER_02:

think it's because Dutch as a language is pretty much useless outside of the Netherlands. So, I mean, you kind of have to speak English because like literally only Belgium speaks English, Dutch, but that's it. So

SPEAKER_00:

you kind of have to. Why do you think nobody else uses the language? Is it because it is a little bit more

SPEAKER_02:

difficult? such a small country. But I don't know, actually. I'm not sure. Because if you go to France or Germany or Italy, those countries are much bigger and they usually don't speak English like that very well. But I think it also has to do with the fact that we don't dub our television shows or movies here in the Netherlands. So everything is all in English with subtitles. And if you go to other countries, countries it's um it's dubbed in a native language

SPEAKER_00:

got it okay yeah no it's a logical logical guess definitely um and it makes my job easier for sure it's not as much of a language barrier i

SPEAKER_02:

think you were gonna do an interview with someone from korea right that didn't speak

SPEAKER_00:

english or correct yeah you already did

SPEAKER_02:

that

SPEAKER_00:

i did it already and i hired a translator

SPEAKER_02:

All right. So that worked out good.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think so. I think where it gets a little bit difficult is more of like the behind the scenes part of it. Like with editing, it gets a little bit difficult because you have to figure out a way to ask your, like when you're editing, ask, like have your voice asking the question and then have them answering it, a short snippet of them answering it. And then you have to drop the volume on them. And then you have to raise the volume on the translator and you have to overlap the audio a little bit and you have to go through the interview and do that for like everything that's said that must be a lot of work it's it is and then also while you're doing the interview it's a little bit more difficult because it the the pace is of speaking is um you have to be very careful not to speak over each other and so um there's like these like strange they feel a little strange the pauses in between It's not like it's natural. And then also I ask my question. It's just not as conversational because I asked my question and then we're just staring at each other for like a good whole minute before they they're like they and then they can answer, you know? Yeah. Yeah. right so I was like what else did they say like really that's all he said yeah that must be frustrating it was okay it's just like it's just different it's not it's okay it's okay though I don't want to say it's but so far

SPEAKER_02:

that that has been the only time where you had to have a translator or

SPEAKER_00:

because you did interview like other non-native English speakers right but that was all yeah yeah yeah but their English was all you know yeah right um I do have a guest that I have asked to come on that is French. And I don't think she speaks English. Who is that? Her name's Gertrude.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, I think I might know her like from Instagram. I think the, the, with the, you know, the, the line painting, like she paints women, right? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I know which one. Yeah. She's really cool.

SPEAKER_00:

Her stuff is really cool. But whenever she answers me in text, she always answers me in French and then I'll have to

SPEAKER_01:

like,

SPEAKER_00:

like Google translate, like what she says. Yeah. And so that's leading me to believe that maybe she doesn't speak English I did send her a release to sign as you know that's always like the very first thing that I'll send you and I haven't received it back from her so I don't know it's just like she doesn't have time or like the idea of doing it in English is just overwhelming or you know it must be

SPEAKER_02:

scary for her too

SPEAKER_00:

yeah I mean I always I'm nervous I'm gonna say like the most ignorant thing or you know what I mean like I'm nervous as a stained glass artist that I'm gonna sound silly So I can't even imagine taking it on in a secondary language that you don't feel like super comfortable speaking. Thank you to everybody who has trusted me to come on. You included, although your English is top notch.

SPEAKER_02:

It's not perfect, but I try. But I'm also nervous, by the way. So it's good to know. It's kind of like comforting to know that you're also

SPEAKER_00:

nervous. Yeah, I always get a little nervous beforehand, too. you just don't know, you know, it's like, I can look at somebody's art, but I have no idea who the person is behind it. So there's no, there's nothing to go on to see if they're going to be a fun chat or not. But so far I've been very lucky. I haven't really had anybody come on the podcast. That's like made me question the job altogether. Right. So you are, are you in

SPEAKER_02:

Tilburg? No, actually I used to work there, but I live in a small town close to Breda. No one's going to know that. But it's a small town close to the border of Belgium. But I used to work in Gilbert.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. I've only been to the Netherlands once. I, like most Americans, just went to Amsterdam a long time ago. Yeah. What do you think about it?

SPEAKER_02:

I thought it was so beautiful. It's really beautiful. The only downside is that there are so many tourists like all year round and coffee shops. It's just filled with coffee shops. It's not really authentic anymore.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I can see that. I feel like, you know, you know, when you're there too, you're like, this is like the Disneyland of the Netherlands. Yeah. Is life similar where you live in terms of, is it a lot of canals and a lot of bicycle rides? Not really.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, bicycle lanes, yeah. I think that's just throughout all of the Netherlands. I don't have a car. I cycle to work every day to my studio. So yeah, bicycle lanes are a thing. everywhere canals mostly in cities so not really in the like the small towns

SPEAKER_00:

okay now are there a lot of tulips around you

SPEAKER_02:

No, not at all, actually. I don't know. I've never even been to the tulip fields in the Netherlands. I don't know why it's such a thing, but yeah. Do you know that originally tulips are from Turkey and it's not even Dutch?

SPEAKER_00:

No. I didn't know that. You're actually pretty close to Germany where you are as well, right?

SPEAKER_02:

yeah pretty much yeah i mean if you live in the netherlands everything is going to be pretty close by because it's like it takes you two hours to drive to the border and then you're in belgium france or luxembourg or germany so um but yeah pretty i think maybe i don't know maybe two like one no two hour drive i'd say i don't know i'm not sure yeah okay pretty close by have you been there

SPEAKER_00:

i have yeah actually this summer i'm going to Dusseldorf and Bonn oh so those are really you know on the west side so those are pretty close to where you are I imagine it's probably like a two and a half hour drive to Dusseldorf I

SPEAKER_02:

don't know actually I have to check um but what are you gonna do in Dusseldorf just for holiday or

SPEAKER_00:

yeah I'm just gonna well my husband is going there for work and so um my daughter and I are just gonna be kind of bopping around and exploring while he's working That's nice. Yeah. Cool. If you have any suggestions while we're there. I don't know if you spent much time over on that side.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't really know that much about Germany, to be honest. Just beer and... No, yeah, just beer, I think. It's like the equivalent of like

SPEAKER_00:

tulips.

SPEAKER_02:

Probably,

SPEAKER_00:

yeah. Okay, so where are you from originally?

SPEAKER_02:

From Breda. So there's like the city in the south of the Netherlands, close to the Belgian border. I've lived there all my life. So, yeah.

UNKNOWN:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

And so do you have siblings? I do. I have one older brother. He's one year older than me. He still lives with my parents. And he works in IT. So totally different. Totally different. What about your parents? Are they artists or

SPEAKER_00:

creative?

SPEAKER_02:

Not really, but it does kind of run in the family. My parents, they were never encouraged to... you know, make a living out of art. So they never really pursued it. But my mom is really into photography and painting and drawing as well. And my dad is also pretty creative. So it's definitely in there, but it's just something they never really persuaded. I don't know, pursued. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So when you were, have you always been interested in being an artist, even from a very young age?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I've always been painting and drawing. Like from the moment I could hold a pen, I was always drawing all the time. So it was really kind of like an obsession almost. So it was always a given that I was going to do something artistic. And my parents always really encouraged me to do that. While at the same time, they were also kind of nervous about it because they know it's hard to make a living out of being an artists. But yeah, they're happy to see what I'm doing. Did you have any stained glass in the house growing up? Not at all. I never really thought about it. It's not like the first thing that comes to mind when you think about what you want to do when you grow up. No, I just never considered it. I always thought it was beautiful, but it never really came to mind. And then I went to college to study painting, like restoration painting. And I kind of discovered that that wasn't really it for me. And it was at the time mandatory to do one semester of stained glass at that school so I did that and I just kind of fell in love with it and knew that this was what I wanted to be doing

SPEAKER_00:

so yeah I think I read somewhere that when you were in college, you were 17 or you were, while you were in college and you were 17, that's, I mean, at least here in the States, like that's pretty young to be at college.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I mean, I guess the educational system in the Netherlands is different. I went to like college. I mean, I'm calling it college, but there's probably a different word for it when I was 15. So I had to decide when I was 15, what I wanted to be studying for the next four years. So that's why I decided on painting. So when I graduated, I was 19. So it's pretty young to really know what you want to be doing for the

SPEAKER_00:

rest of your life. So the way that the education system works there, that's normal when you're 15 to have to decide then what's

SPEAKER_02:

next? It kind of depends on the kind of high school that you go to. It depends on your level. High school is divided into different levels. So yeah, sometimes you graduate high school at 15, but you can also graduate at 18 or maybe even 19. So it really depends.

SPEAKER_01:

Cool.

UNKNOWN:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

So in 2022, you had a post. It said, that come about?

SPEAKER_02:

Um, well, um, I knew I wanted to be doing, I wanted to start creating my own work, but I didn't have space to do so. Um, cause I was living in an apartment at the time. Um, um, so, and my parents, they, they live on an old farm, so they have like, they had like a bunch of space for me to use. So that's why I decided to, to go there, which was really cool to start with. Cause you know, it's free space and etc. your parents place. So it's, it's, it's nice. But, um, after a while, I really wanted to, to have more of my own, you know, space, my own studio. So that's when I, um, started renting, um, a studio at the, like an old swimming pool close by. Um, um, and I felt more comfortable to, um, start doing teaching classes. Um, cause I'd been getting questions a lot, um, of people wanting me to teach. And I never really considered it because I was, you know, working from my parents' garage. So it didn't really feel like a nice place to do that. So as soon as I got the studio, I thought, you know, why not? Maybe I should give it a chance. So yeah, that's what I did. And it was never really my ambition to start teaching, but I'm glad I did it anyway.

SPEAKER_00:

In 2023, you wrote, I'm starting off 2023 by opening a new chapter. Oh, wait, hold on. Before I say that, I wanted to ask you more about the Brazil teaching. So tell me more about when you got to teach in Brazil. How did that opportunity come along?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I got a message from them on Instagram and they asked me if I would be open to teach their employees in another um so we were trying to like figure out a way how to do that and then i was like wait maybe i should just ask them or uh tell them that i could maybe come over to brazil as well because that would be really cool uh so i did that and they were like yeah sure um so i was super excited about that um so i went there i was really really nervous it was for me first time being in south america but it was i was so excited about it and they were great it was uh it's this company um uh like passed down from like family um And yeah, it was really cool to see how they get to do these kinds of things in Brazil because it's really so different from how we do it in Europe or probably even different from how you do it in the States. But they were so friendly and warm and welcoming. And as soon as I stepped into the studio, all my nerves were gone. And what kind of a company was it? It was a stained glass company and they mostly did new windows, like entirely new windows for newly built churches.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, okay, cool, cool. So

SPEAKER_02:

really big

SPEAKER_00:

projects. Did they have you staying on premises?

UNKNOWN:

Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

No, just in their studio. What do you mean? Like, where did you sleep? Oh, right. No, they got me a hotel. So

SPEAKER_00:

yeah, that was really nice. Yeah. Very cool. And how long were you there for? How long were you there for?

SPEAKER_02:

I think I was at their company for like a week. And then I stayed the weekend in the city there. And then I kind of like did a week of Rio, a little holiday there. while I was in Brazil anyway. So yeah, I was in Brazil for two weeks, but I was at the company for only one week.

SPEAKER_00:

Cool. I love that. And then let's see here in 2023, you posted, I'm starting off 2023 by opening a new chapter. I recently resigned from my part-time job to pursue my stained glass work full-time. An exciting step and frankly, a quite scary one too. And while I'm a bit sad to see 2022 go, I can't wait to see what 2023 has in store. Is that the year you also got married? No,

SPEAKER_02:

I got married last year. Okay. So

SPEAKER_00:

in 2023, what was the part-time job that you quit? Well,

SPEAKER_02:

I worked at a stained glass studio, a restoration studio. Well, mostly restoration. It was a studio in Tilburg. And I worked there for about four or five years, I think.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Wow, okay. Let's see here. So then in 2023 or sorry, 2020. Yeah. So then obviously it was 2023. Then you must've got, then you got married afterwards. No, no, no. I got married in 2022 last summer. Okay. Got it. Okay. I'm following. And you went on a trip with, with that too. Didn't you go to like.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, we went to South America. Oh, you did. We went to Columbia and Ecuador and the Galapagos islands. So yeah, it was, it was great. Seven weeks. Seven weeks? Yeah. Yeah. It's the longest I've been on a holiday, to be honest. So I was, while it was fun, I was also kind of excited to get back to work. Yeah. After

SPEAKER_00:

that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, your work consists of obviously stained glass, doing commissions and doing personal work. And then you also, you have taken the teaching thing and gone with it. I want to go over some of your courses that you offer. The first being a two-day course. It's a stained glass and glass painting for beginners course. This workshop is perfect for those who are interested in learning the complete basics of stained glass. Not only will we teach you how to create your own stained glass windows from start to finish, but you will also learn how to paint on glass. The first workshop day is in Oosterhout.

SPEAKER_02:

Oosterhout.

SPEAKER_00:

There it is. Where you will be taught the basics of glass painting. See, this is why I don't try. This is why I don't try.

SPEAKER_02:

It's tricky. It

SPEAKER_00:

is tricky. On Sunday, we will continue the workshop in a cozy barn of D... You have to fill it in. There it is. Okay. Here we'll teach you how to cut glass, how to lead the glass pieces, and finally how to solder. We have a number of ready-made designs from which you can choose. It's also possible to incorporate your painted glass work from the day before. So are you seeing like beginner beginners in this class or are you seeing people? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, like complete beginners, people who have no prior experience with stained glass.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And is the reason that you switch locations because one day you're painting and that's where all the kilns are and then you move on to letting in a different space?

SPEAKER_02:

It's just because I have more room in that different space. It's actually the barn is my mother-in-law's. So it's really, it's just a fun space. Yeah, and it has more room than my studio because my studio is quite small, actually. I can really, really only host like three people max for the painting part. And I really don't have, my table is not big enough to, um, yeah, for, for, for people

SPEAKER_00:

to work on three people. So, yeah. Okay. And how many people, is there a limit of how many people can take this, the two day course?

SPEAKER_02:

I

SPEAKER_00:

would say three, three people. Yeah. Three people. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And how much are you charging per guest?

SPEAKER_02:

It's, I think it was 215 euros. I'm not sure what that is in dollars. I'm not sure about the conversion rate. I

SPEAKER_00:

have to plug it into my thinking computer in order to tell you exactly. And let's see. So then you have a three-day course as well. This multi-day workshop focuses completely on portrait painting. Basic knowledgement and glass painting skills are required. So is just taking the two day course enough education to go on to the three day course? Or is this for like, I mean, you

SPEAKER_02:

could, you could, but it would be, I mean, it will be a lot of information. I mean, it really just depends on a person as well. Some people, they kind of just absorb all the information and they, they just roll with it, you know, but other people, it's, it's, it's hard to, to tell. Some, I would say for some people, it would be too much, too much information at once. But you never really know. It's

SPEAKER_00:

really hard to say. During this workshop, you will learn how to paint multiple layers before firing it in the kiln, how to work with various painting mediums, the usage of different colors, and how to correctly apply shadow and depth. We will work on three portraits in various styles. There will also be room to work from your own photo or design. So are you seeing more stained glass artists that want to sort of deepen their knowledge of painting, or are you seeing more uh people who are already painting wanting like just as painters on like canvas that want to transition the work onto glass

SPEAKER_02:

um mostly um that first first group of people are already into glass painting and um they just want to you know deepen their knowledge or you know get more insights so

SPEAKER_00:

yeah that kind of stuff yeah Because when I was looking at, you have a highlight on your Instagram stories. and the painting that people are doing in that class is like incredible like they definitely don't look like they were like this do this little you know mother and daughter craft today and I

SPEAKER_02:

mean it's quite intense of course I did one last weekend and um while the students are like happy at the end of course um with all the stuff that they've done and like everything that they've learned they're also really tired

SPEAKER_00:

yeah

SPEAKER_02:

so it's it's It's pretty long days with lots of learning and, you know, so it is intensive, intense. I don't

SPEAKER_00:

know. Yeah. How many hours a day do you have your students study?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, on Friday and Saturday, we start at 9 and then we usually finish around like somewhere between 4 and 6 p.m. And then we have like a lunch break between like 12 and 1 or whatever. And then on Sunday, we usually finish a little bit earlier, like maybe at around 3. So, yeah,

SPEAKER_00:

there's quite a lot of hours. Is it the same amount of people as in the other class, maximum of three? Yeah, maximum of three

SPEAKER_02:

because my light table just isn't big enough to accommodate more people, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Do you see yourself having a larger space at some point? I mean, would you like to teach more people? Could you take on more people at the same time in terms of just bandwidth of attention? I

SPEAKER_02:

think I could, yeah. I'm actually looking for a bigger space right now because I recently moved. So I used to live in Breda and from there it was only like a 30 minute bicycle ride to my studio and now I moved to a small town and it's like an hour so like two hours a day of cycling which is quite a lot so I'm looking for a bigger space and hoping I can accommodate more students and also I'm going to the AGG conference next week And I'm going to be teaching, I think, a group of eight people at once there. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Cool. Very cool. Did Flora Jameson take your class? Yeah, she did. She did. Yeah. Yeah. She, let's see here. I saw her in the stories that I was just mentioning on your Instagram, but then also when I just put a shout out on Instagram to see if anybody had any questions for you, she wrote no questions, just that she's awesome. So.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, that's so sweet. Oh, I've been following her for like a long time. When I first started out with Stained Glass, she was like one of the first accounts on Instagram that I discovered and I've been a huge fan ever since and then I saw that she was interested in signing up for my class and I was like oh my god what am I going to teach her you know because she's already so good so I was really really nervous about her you know coming over but it ended up being great

SPEAKER_00:

yeah yeah and I'm sure maybe you guys just had like a wonderful conversation like it was just like a reciprocal uh situation while she was there

SPEAKER_02:

yeah yeah that's definitely always the case I mean I always learn so much from my students as well because there's not just like one correct way of doing things it's um it's it's yeah it's really cool that you kind of pick up like habits from other um students so

SPEAKER_00:

yeah it's just studio visits in general like even if it's not for a class like I It's really valuable. is never be intimidated or nervous if somebody comes to your class that also is a teacher or a stained glass artist in general she's like because even they'll always like learn something or they'll always learn how to do something differently or more efficiently and but it's really great advice actually yeah it's really great advice and she's like just never ever be intimidated because if they're there they're going to pick up at least one thing yeah it's true so you recently did a kickstarter right yeah online classes and I was poking around this morning to see how you were doing and you totally met your goal and you went over a little bit congratulations I know

SPEAKER_02:

yeah I'm so excited about it I've been wanting to do that for a long while now because I do get like a lot of international people coming to my class but it's not it's not for everyone like it's I mean it's expensive to travel to the Netherlands so I've been getting a lot of questions about doing a video class. And at first I was a little bit hesitant about it because you can't really like offer any like personal guidance or it's just like doing it online comes with its challenges. And I was, I just felt hesitant about that. But I feel like I kind of worked something out right now. And yeah, so I want to, yeah, I'm excited to start to get started with it.

SPEAKER_00:

Did you hire like a production company? to film it for you or are you filming it yourself? Yeah, no, definitely.

SPEAKER_02:

Like it would never happen if I had to do it all myself. I'm not really that great with computers or, you know, that kind of equipment in general. So I really had to hire someone. And that's why I started the Kickstarter because it's just, you know, it can be quite expensive. So I just wanted to do a Kickstarter just to be sure. And it also kind of like as a way to measure interest. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Now, as far as doing a Kickstarter for a project, did you find it pretty intuitive and easy to go through using Kickstarter for

SPEAKER_02:

crowdsourcing?

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, yeah, I mean, it's, I think it's a great platform, but it was for me my first time using Kickstarter. So I felt kind of intimidated by all the information that I had to write down. Um, cause I'm not really that much of a planner myself. I just, you know, go by the day and not really, I don't really like to think about stuff and I had to, you know, write everything down for the Kickstarter and, you know, all the pros and cons and like the schedules and the rewards and everything. So it was, uh, Yeah, I felt quite intimidated by that. Glad I did it anyway.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And did you only post about it just on your Instagram or did you have any other sort of platforms that you use to push it? I

SPEAKER_02:

used Facebook as well. And I think I posted it on Reddit as well, but like three people commented on it. So that wasn't very successful.

SPEAKER_00:

Does Kickstarter take, how do they get paid? What's their percentage? You know, I'm not even sure actually.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, I'm sure there, there must be something. I just, yeah, I don't, I don't really know. That's a really good question.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Okay. I'm just curious because I, you know, as you probably know already, a lot of, a lot of people listening to this podcast are small business owners. So I always like to ask like the questions like that because Kickstarter is like a very, you know, that like GoFundMe, I think are probably the two biggest crowdsourcing, websites. And so I'm just curious how, how it was using Kickstarter for you. I mean, obviously it worked. You got your, you got, you made your goal.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think at this point people can still like back out of the project, um, because I was, um, um, I sent out a message to all my backers a couple of days ago, thanking them for, you know, reaching my, my, uh, my goal and, um, saying that I was going to send out rewards uh this month and then i replied i got a message back from from one of my backers and he said like listen you're even though you already reached your goal um your project is still live for like 30 more days and until your project is still like the moment your project is still live people can still back out so i mean it's tricky like i didn't know that so it was something to

SPEAKER_00:

keep in mind definitely Yeah. So you really don't want to like send anything or offer anything or saying that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Exactly. Cause I was like, Oh, I'm going to send everything now. Cause I reached my goal, you know, but that's not how it works apparently. So, I mean, the project has to, to end first, which is in 30 days. I don't, I don't think you can change that. And until then, or before then people can still cancel. Got it. Okay. So I don't want to, you know, Right.

SPEAKER_00:

What was the incentives that you offered for people donating? Is there tiers or is it just like, give me this much and you get this much and that's the only offering? Right.

SPEAKER_02:

I think I had like a greeting card with my work on it for like 15 euros or dollars and 35 euros you'll get an art print from one of my works. And then for$45, you get the video course for a discounted price once it's live. So I'm planning to put it on the market for$60. So if you pledge now with$45, you get it for that price that was kind of the idea

SPEAKER_00:

otherwise the course will only cost$60 and that's for the entire course

SPEAKER_02:

yeah I mean it's probably going to be like not that long video because it's I don't know I feel kind of I don't want to, I always hate charging things, you know, charging for things. It's not one of my strongest points. I just don't want to overcharge because I feel like I'm, like I can't, like there's all these cons involved with the video class because you can't really offer like personal guidance and you can't really, you know, take the brush out of your student's hand and like do it for them or like show them how to do it. It's not as, I don't know, like in depth as it would be for a live class. So I really don't want to charge the same amount for it, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, absolutely. The description of it says, unlock your full potential as a glass artist with this comprehensive video class on portrait painting on glass. This course is designed for glass artists who are looking to take their skills to the next level and want to learn the intricacies of painting portraits on glass. Led by Ellen Van Dyke, this So it's more than one video? I

SPEAKER_02:

might do more of them, but I think for now it's going to be like one, one video. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. And you just have like a list of tools that they need to come in, you know, this much, this kind of glass. And obviously they have to come with a,

SPEAKER_02:

yeah, exactly. It's going to come with a list with like particular paints or tools, brushes, you know? So, yeah. So people can, you know, prepare those first. I think that's, that's necessary.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, absolutely. And what form will this video be transferred to the student? Is it going to be sort of like, like a code so that they can watch it on YouTube? Or is it going to be like a downloadable video? So then they'll just have it on their own? You know,

SPEAKER_02:

I'm still I'm still working that out with the guys who are going to do the filming and editing for me, because I'm like, such a noob when it platform where you can watch the video without it being really easy to just download it. I don't really know how yet. I think they had some ideas, so I'm just going to listen to them. I'm just going to do whatever they say. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And so you have not filmed it yet. When do you plan on filming it?

SPEAKER_02:

I'm actually working out a date with them right now, but it's tricky because I'm going to I'm leaving for the States on Sunday and I'm going to be there for two weeks. And they also have packed schedules. So we're trying to figure out a date right now. But probably July, I think. Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

What are you doing over here?

SPEAKER_02:

I'm going to go to the American Glasgow conference in Richmond.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, right. You did. You said that you teach a class. Yeah. Got it. Okay. And they're not going to film it there though. They're going to film it for you when you come back home. Right. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. That's so exciting.

SPEAKER_02:

All of it. Yeah, it is. It's going to be my first time in the States actually. So I'm really excited about that. Yeah.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And it's in Virginia? Is that what you said?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, Virginia, Richmond, yeah. Richmond, Virginia. I have no idea. I still have to check because I have a couple of days off in Richmond. I have to check what's to do over

SPEAKER_00:

there. I'm not really sure. I've never been to Virginia. I wish, I mean... No? No, I've never been there, but... You know, I was just going to say, well, if any of our listeners have any ideas for her, but probably by the time this episode airs, come and gone, but I'm sure you'll have to Google it myself. Yeah. It's such a beautiful part of the country, honestly. Yeah. I saw your story also where you were using a porcupine quill. Right. Yeah. I felt like it was kind of like a glass hack. And so I wanted you to maybe elaborate for us how you were using it. I

SPEAKER_02:

mean, it's not, I don't want to take credit for it because it's not my hack, but I got it through Christina. I don't know how to pronounce her last name. Elfner, I think. She's from Sweden and she's on Instagram under the name Stations Chris. And she She also does stained glass. And she came to my studio a couple of months ago, and she brought me this porcupine quill as a gift to use for the scratching of the paint. And I thought it was so cool. And it's really, really useful, too, because it has two tips. And one is really fine, and the other one is more blunt. And it's flexible. It's really, really great. Yeah, so I ordered 50

SPEAKER_00:

of

SPEAKER_02:

them.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah, I can't imagine that they're that expensive.

SPEAKER_02:

No, they're not expensive. No. And I think someone told me that Derek Hunt, he used to go to the zoo to collect them, to ask for them. But that's what I heard. I'm not really sure if that's true, but that's also really cool. It's like folklore. Like I

SPEAKER_00:

heard a story once about the great Derek Hunt and how he would go to the zoo. We'll have to ask him. We'll have to ask him to confirm, yeah. Do you have any other glass hacks that you can think of that you'd like to share? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

But one is like really specific. And so the one thing that I do is portrait painting on glass. And I have one hack for skin tones that instead of using just like all the beige and pink colors or the brown colors, use some blue as well. Because it's really great. If you just use a tiny bit of it, it creates this kind of like cooler tone for the skin tone. And it's really, it's so natural looking. It feels weird to add blue, but it really makes a lot of sense. So that, and there's another one, but I can't really take credit for it. Because again, it's one of my students' hacks. And she uses, I don't know what it's called, but it's kind of like photography photographers use it to clean up dust from their film rolls, like analog photos. But you can use it when you're wearing a mouth mask or like a face mask when you're painting. You can use this to kind of like blow away the dust from the paint. So I thought it was a really, really convenient trick.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's super cool. Maybe we can include a link to that in the show notes to the Amazon listing.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm sure it has a word for it in English as well. Let me see if I can find it. It says

SPEAKER_00:

bellow. Well, the word bellow to me is like an old... It is, it is like a tiny bellow. Maybe that is what it's currently called as well. Like usually when I think of a bellow, I think of the big ones that you use for a fireplace.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. It's the tiny version of that basically. That's amazing. Thank you for that. Okay. There's some pieces, some specific pieces now of yours that I wanted to ask you about.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So the first one is called Sweet Melancholy. And you wrote, I honestly don't think I've ever felt more relieved to finish a piece before. This work came with so many challenges and the further it progressed, the more anxious I got about accidentally breaking something along the way. I've been working on and off on this piece for several months and I really wanted to have it finished for the exhibition this weekend. In the end, it took me blood, literally sweat and tears to finish it on time. but I'm proud that I did make it happen. So for our listeners that can't see the piece, it's a girl and she's sort of like laying down on the floor and she has her head up on a pillow. So why was this piece so much more difficult than other pieces you've made?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I guess certain shapes of the glass. It was a challenge because some of them you couldn't really like, put them together because of the shape of the glass. So you had to kind of like open up the lead all the way and kind of like, I don't know how to explain it, but instead of kind of like shoving it into each other, you had to like open up the lead like all the way and then just put in the piece of glass like from above. Okay. And then closing the lead again, if that makes sense. If you know what I mean. Yeah. It had some parts where the glass was really thin. So I was worried about about it breaking. For the carpet, I did the engraving technique that Judith Schachter always does. So it was with the Dremel, with the handheld Dremel. And it took a lot of time for me to get the pattern out of the glass entirely. So it was just really a lot of work, mostly. And I was working under a deadline because I wanted to have it finished in time for for the exhibition that weekend and um I really had to work like overtime to make that happen. And I don't think it's a good thing when you have to work while you're in a rush because then there's a lot more risk of, you know, things going wrong. So I was just waiting for the moment where something was going to go wrong, but it didn't happen, fortunately. But yeah, it was, I was really, I had anxiety. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that is tough when you have deadlines and very specific pieces of glass that you're like, the only really huge piece that I've made, that commission that I've talked about too much now at this point. But I had a very limited amount of one of the kinds of glasses and cutting that last piece and just being like, if I break this, if this cracks, I'm toast. There's so much that depends on it. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Too much. I have a list here of different exhibitions and different sort of, um, uh, competitions, I would say that you have been a part of and one. Um, and there was, I know that there's probably other ones, but a lot of them, they were written in Dutch and they weren't like translatable. And so I was just like, oh, she's going to have to tell me, but did that one, that one one, correct. One of the, did it win painting of the year or. It

SPEAKER_02:

was, it was a Dutch portrait prize. Um, it was, um, it was also actually my first exhibition that I, um, participated in, uh, So in the Netherlands, we have this competition, I guess, that's called the Dutch Portrait Prize. And it's like any artist who creates portraits can enter. And a lot of people enter usually. And my aunt, my aunt, who's an artist as well, she has entered before and she had won as well. And they were kind of like persuading me to enter as well because I had never been staying glass piece before. Usually it's mostly traditional art. artists like sculptors or like oil painters or you know that kind of so I at first I was kind of hesitant because I thought that maybe it would be too different to enter with the stained glass piece but I think in the end it was my advantage because I was the only one who entered with the stained glass piece so I think that was what made me stood out. And people were kind of surprised because they didn't really know that you could create contemporary art with stained glass for some reason. So yeah, I won the young talent category

SPEAKER_00:

for that one. Very cool. Very cool. We should point out that you are very young. How old are you now? I'm 26. You're 26 now. Okay. How long have you been doing stained glass professionally then? I mean,

SPEAKER_02:

I went to study stained glass when I was 19. I think I got a job at the studio in Tilburg where I used to work. I think I was... 21 or 22. Yeah. So that's like four, 45 years, four to five years.

SPEAKER_00:

You've done a lot. You've done a lot already. So I also wrote down painting of the year 2021. Was that your, the one of your, oh wait, you also did the Was Sweet Melancholy the one where you won the Dutch Portrait Prize or was that the one with your boyfriend?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I won the Portrait Prize with the one with my boyfriend. I didn't enter Sweet Melancholy for anything.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, I'm following. Okay, so let's talk about the boyfriend piece. It says in the article that I read about that one, it says the young Ellen Van Dyke is a passionate stained glass artist who just won the Young Talent from the Dutch Portrait Prize, a prestigious portrait contest in the Netherlands. in which 1,400 artists from different disciplines participated. She won with the grisaille?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, like painted, glass painted.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Portrait she made of her boyfriend.

UNKNOWN:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Is that one named or is it just like, that's my boyfriend? It's called Nick because that's my husband's name. Yeah. Okay. Now husband.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. He wasn't my husband at the time, but he's now.

SPEAKER_00:

And out of those 1400 artists, was there any other stained glass artists or were the only one? Yeah. Not as far as I know. No,

SPEAKER_02:

I know there was a pre-selection and I went to, I don't know what was all, I went to the, I don't know, I guess the selection after the pre-selection and there wasn't any other stained glass artists. So I guess I was the only one.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Very, very cool. So you have the Dutch portrait prize of 2021, the painting of the year for 2021. I have exhibition art, uh, passion now 2022. That was just an exhibition, but did you get any awards there? No, it was just an exhibition. Yeah. Okay. And then the exhibition good looking in 2022.

SPEAKER_02:

That one was, um, cause the Dutch portrait prize is like, how do you say it? Like two yearly, like every two

SPEAKER_00:

years. So the next piece that I wanted to ask you about is really touching. I don't see a name for it, but I'll read you the post that you wrote for it. It's a young boy. to them in person. And I'm glad I did because it was so very moving to see how much joy and comfort my artwork brought them. I can't even imagine what that must have felt like for you to get that phone call in the middle of making this piece to learn that he had passed and then to have it handed over to his parents.

SPEAKER_02:

It was really, really bizarre, actually, because his parents, they were like the sweetest people ever. They were so kind and so I don't know, involved in everything. They reached out to me after the Portrait Prize exhibition because they'd seen my work and they were just so touched by it and they really wanted to have a portrait of their son in stained glass. So Uh, yeah, so that's what we did. Um, they, they came over, we, we had like a really great talk. Um, uh, I, I started working on it and then like after, I think after like a couple of months, I got a text saying that he had sadly passed away, which I don't know. It was just, I don't know. I don't even know how to describe that. Um, But it was, it made me feel a lot of pressure as well. Because it's very, I don't know how to say it in English, but... very loaded, I would say. I don't know if that's the correct term. This is hard. Suddenly, it had a much more emotional value to it than you anticipated it to be. I really wanted to deliver it to them in person. I think it was like a three-hour drive from where I live. It's all the way in the north of the Netherlands Thank you. And I was so, so nervous about it because, you know, because of the pressure that I felt. And also because I was just nervous about seeing them and, you know, seeing their grief. But they were so happy with it. They cried once they saw it. And then I cried too because I was so moved by their reaction. So, yeah, it was very, very touching, very touching moment.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I imagine. Gosh. I can't imagine.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's really hard to imagine. Yeah, me neither. I can't imagine what it's like to lose your kid.

SPEAKER_00:

It must be awful. Yeah, and it's just so unnatural for your child to die before you. Yeah, I read somewhere or I heard somewhere they were saying how we have terms for different kinds of loss, like you're a widow or you're a widower, but there is no term for when you lose a child. because it's so unnatural and wrong that we have, we haven't, we don't have a name for it. Right. Yeah. I never thought about it like that, but it's, that's true. Yeah. Well, you did a beautiful job. I felt like, I mean, I, I really spent a long time on that piece, just sort of staring at it. And I felt like you did a really incredible job capturing his spirit in that photo. I'm going to cry right now. And I've never met this boy before, but there was so much joy in his face in that portrait. And I felt like I could sense a piece, obviously, just a piece of his personality just by just by looking at it and i think that that's truly what sets your work um such your work stands out so much is because you are able to capture so much of a feeling in the eyes um in the face, like the perfect, it's so realistic that I feel like you can really, I don't know. It's just like truly like looking at somebody. It's so realistic.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Well, that's the best kind of compliment. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

You're very

SPEAKER_02:

welcome.

SPEAKER_00:

So, and then the last piece that I wrote down that I wanted to ask you about, um, is called golden hour. And this piece, I feel like got a lot of press for you. And Was that a commission or was that a personal piece for you?

SPEAKER_02:

It was a personal piece. It was the portrait that I did. It wasn't meant to be like a completed artwork. It was just kind of more of an experiment for me because I really wanted to paint someone with a dark skin tone because I hadn't really done that before. So I saw that as a challenge and I just kind of got a photo from Pinterest and just started painting without really having any... idea or design uh for it and then I felt like I had to do something with it so that's when I created the um you know the pattern in the background um and my dad actually did the frame like the stand for it and I was so I don't know so happy with the end result and then posted it on reddit and I got like crazy amount of upvotes on reddit so that was really cool that's amazing so You don't know the model? Uh,

SPEAKER_00:

no, I don't know, but she is a real girl. Cause there was a photo. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I just, just a photo that I found on Pinterest. Yeah. Cause that's, that's how I started out. I just wanted to, to have like good reference photos to work from. So Pinterest was my, is my go-to, you know, like website to find that kind of

SPEAKER_00:

stuff. What would you say the percentage of your work is a commission versus like per personal work.

SPEAKER_02:

Right now, percentage, I'm not sure, but I definitely do a lot more commission work. I try to work on my own personal stuff, but it's really hard because it always gets pushed back to the background because there's always something else I need to work on or like paid work or whatever. So I feel like that should be done first. And then when I have some leftover time, I can work on my own personal work. But in reality, that's means you never work on your own stuff so I really have to figure out a way somehow to combine these things you know

SPEAKER_00:

right And then how much of your time is spent teaching versus making work of your own commission or private, personal?

SPEAKER_02:

I try to teach like two weekends every month. So that's six days a month. So quite a lot of time. And the funny thing is I was really, I was kind of reluctant about going into teaching at first because anyone who knows me in real life knows that I'm an introvert I'm not really I just never really saw myself you know teaching people or like like speaking like in front of groups or whatever like just being generally being in a spotlight um but once I started doing it mostly because I wanted to figure out a way to make a living out of you know my job so I thought that that would be a good way and then once I started doing it I realized I really liked it because you get to meet so many people from all over and you learn from them as well and you you kind of you realize you're in this really cool community of like-minded people. So, I mean, so far it's, it's really been great. So I'm glad I started doing it anyway.

SPEAKER_00:

That's amazing. I read that traditional mouth-blown glass is your favorite to work with. What brand of glass are you using and where do you buy your glass?

SPEAKER_02:

I usually buy Lamberts. I use Lamberts because the quality is just so good. It's really my favorite. And there's also this mouth-blown glass from Poland called Jaslo, I think. I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing it the right way. And It's basically a cheaper version of Lambert's. But Lambert's is my absolute favorite, and I buy it from a little shop in, well, not exactly a little, a shop in the Netherlands for stained glass supplies called Phoenix Glass.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

UNKNOWN:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Is it close to you or is that a common thing or do you have to drive quite a bit to see one?

SPEAKER_02:

It's about a 45-minute drive, so it's doable. But I usually just have it delivered to my studio because I don't have a car. So it's just a hassle having to, you know, lend a car from someone and drive over there.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you have a mentor, like maybe from school or something or somebody that who do you call when you have a question? I

SPEAKER_02:

don't really. I'm not sure. I guess if I have now, if I have a specific question, I just reach out to people on Instagram, I guess. But I never really had a mentor, I would say. I don't think so. No.

SPEAKER_00:

You're just going rogue. You just... And for any of our listeners... that might be visiting the Netherlands. Is there a stained glass in the Netherlands that cannot be missed to see? Cannot be what? Oh, cannot be missed.

SPEAKER_02:

I would recommend going to Gouda, Gouda. Gouda, it's also from the cheese. I don't know if you know it. Gouda cheese is really famous, but it's a city in the Netherlands and they're famous for their painted glass. So I would really recommend to go there. What else? Yeah, I'm not sure. I think I'm going to leave it at that for now.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, that's good. Okay, I think I'm ready to ask you your final three questions. All right. Who is your favorite stained glass artist?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I have several. I really like Rihanna Willemsen's work. She's from the

SPEAKER_01:

Netherlands

SPEAKER_02:

as well. Do you know her? She does a lot of holy monkeys, that kind of stuff, but she's a really talented glass painter. And there's this girl from paris that i've been following i think she's from paris but i'm not sure now did i say it um she's really really talented um her name is laura laura sapri katan i think i'm not i don't think i'm pronouncing it right but it's really her work is amazing um she does painted glass but she also does um i think it's called gouache like on paper um And she, her work is really unique. Yeah, it's just unlike anything I've ever seen before. So that's really cool. What's

SPEAKER_00:

her, is it Laura?

SPEAKER_02:

Laura Catan? Yeah, exactly. Oh, I'm not following her. Okay, I'm following her now. She's great. And there's this guy from Japan. I don't know how to pronounce his name, but it's like Kei Takai or something like that. You spell it? K-E-I-J.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, yes. I'm following this guy too. Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

His work is so whimsical. It's really wonderful.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, his stuff is really, really good too. Yeah. And then the next question is, who is your favorite artist outside of Glass?

SPEAKER_02:

That's a hard one. I'm not really keeping up with traditional artists, at least not as much as I would like to. But I really love the classics such as Klimt or Van Gogh. And I think I saved one. I think he's from the States and he does murals. Let me see. His name is Abel... Abel Macias. I'm not sure. But he's on Instagram under the name Abel Mac. And his work is so colorful. Oh, cool. Yeah. Very cool. Mm-hmm. And I just remembered there's also this painter from Barcelona. Her name is Alba Fabre, I guess. And she also does really amazing murals. And she's on Instagram. Under the name A-L-B-F-S.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh,

SPEAKER_02:

wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I love it so much. All right. Very cool. Thank you so much for sharing that. And then the final question is, what are your five to 10 year goals?

SPEAKER_02:

I don't really know, actually. I'm not the kind of person who really plans that much. I guess I would definitely like to continue working the way I do now. So I started this year with being full-time self-employed, and I'm only five months in right now, but I'm hoping I can continue doing that for the next at least five to ten years. I would like to be able to work on my own stuff. a little bit more to, um, I don't know, to just be able to focus on that a little bit more. And one thing I would definitely like to do is travel more. Like when I went to Brazil to teach or I'm going to the States right now. So

SPEAKER_00:

I would love to do more of that. Yeah, sure. I

SPEAKER_02:

mean, like anyone, like if people, people can always reach out to me if they have questions. I'm always happy to help in any way that I can. So yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00:

Ellen, I had such a great time chatting with you today. And again, your work is amazing. It's the most realistic glass painting portraits I have ever seen before. You really have a way of capturing something, a feeling, an emotion that honestly, I don't think you can learn. I think you just either got it or you don't. And I think that you were just, you've got it. You've got it. Your work is just so incredible. So thank you. Thank you so much for coming on Crafts today.

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you so much for having me I'm such a fan of your podcast so it's really it's such a joy for me to to participate I'm really glad you asked me

SPEAKER_00:

I'm glad to have a wonderful and productive day in the studio today and I'll talk to you later all

SPEAKER_02:

right bye

SPEAKER_00:

bye to see more of Ellen's work her Instagram is at glass atelier Ellen that's G L A S A T E L I E R E L L E And mine is at Runa Glassworks. For the Cracked Patreon page members, Ellen is offering 15% off of her online courses. The code and link to that is always in my bio or the show notes. Next week, I'll be talking to Lil Eris of Lekasuka. Her ornate glasswork tells tales using a mix of imagination and childhood experience intertwining current fact and folklore fiction. It's our final episode for this season of Cracked and I hope you'll join us for it next week. Till then, bye!

UNKNOWN:

We'll be right back.