Cracked with Chevonne Ariss

Sculpting Skylines with Tom Fruin

• Tom Fruin • Season 5 • Episode 55

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Welcome back to Cracked with Chevonne Ariss! 
Today, I’m honored to have Tom Fruin join me. Known for his large-scale installations, Tom uses steel and brightly colored plexiglass to create monumental sculptures.

Tom’s work stands out not only for its visual impact but also for its commitment to accessibility and sustainability with his use of reclaimed materials. 


You may already be familiar with Tom’s work but just didn’t know the artist behind the pieces. Fruin's largest installation to date, the Watertower series, is installed on multiple rooftops across New York City and around the country.  


Tom, who grew up in Los Angeles and now lives and works in Brooklyn, New York, shares with me today his experiences and insights into the world of large-scale installations. 

Join me as I crack it all wide open…

To see more of Tom’s work, his instagram is @tomfruin and mine is @runaglassworks.  
For a lucky Patreon page member Tom is gifting some stickers and one of his glass patchwork candles. The best part: as the candle burns down, the colors glow through the glass it’s really pretty! I’ll be doing the drawing for that September 8th, 2024.


Favorite artists:
David Hammons
wikiart.org/en/david-hammons
urbanglass.org

Thank you to this episode’s sponsors:



The Stained Glass Association of America
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Canfield sets the standard for the Stained Glass industry.

Youghiogheny Glass Company
Stained glass sheets and glass products for the art and stained glass industry.

Glass Art Magazine
For the Creative Professional Working in Hot, Warm, and Cold Glass.

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

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SPEAKER_00:

Bye.

SPEAKER_01:

Hello and welcome back to Cracked with Siobhan Aris. Friends, we have an incredible, incredible episode today. I spoke with Tom Fruin. I'm going to get into it. You're going to love it. But first, I have to thank some sponsors. Thank you to Canfield Technologies. They continue to blow me away with their amazing products. Their newest stained glass flux is the Canfield Magic Gel Flux. It's smokeless, fumeless, and goes on like a liquid, but stays on like a paste to ensure complete solder joints. Instant acting and works great with all solder joints. Try any of their products and you'll see why Canfield sets the standard for the stained glass industry. Find out which products are right for you at CanfieldMetals.com. I'd also like to thank the Stained Glass Association of America. The SGAA has been the hub of North America's stained glass community since 1903, connecting the industry to inspire, educate, and advocate for all things stained glass. The association is the steward of one of the oldest continuously published journals in the country, the Stained Glass Quarterly. Members enjoy a subscription to the award-winning SGQ, as well as exclusive access to our historic archives dating back to 1906. Learn more and subscribe at stainedglass.org. I'd also like to share my gratitude for Yakagini Glass. Yakagini Glass is a small manufacturing company that specializes in the production of stained glass sheets and glass products for the art and stained glass industry. Its products are distributed worldwide for use in the making of stained glass lamps, panels, windows, and other arts and crafts. Yakagini Glass is world-renowned for their uncompromising quality and color artistry designed to recreate the magnificence of nature's palette. Yakagany Glass proudly introduces Y96 and Ural by Yak fusible sheet glass. Their growing line of System 96 compatible glass is a sure crowd pleaser with a palette of robust and new opal and cathedral colors. Visit system96.com for more firing schedules and find out more about Yakagany at yakaganyglass.com. That's Y-O-U-G-H-I-O-G-A-N-Y I'd also love for you guys to know about Glass Patterns Quarterly. Glass Patterns Quarterly consistently features the finest glass artists sharing their techniques with you through in-depth, step-by-step tutorials. You'll get these tutorials as well as a 16-page pullout pattern section, most of which are full-size patterns. Let me repeat that, it's a 16-page pullout pattern section. Glass Patterns Quarterly is so much fun. I always learn so much. Find out more about Glass Patterns Quarterly and which subscription is right for you. you at glasspatterns.com. Today, I'm so honored to have Tom Fruin join me. Known for his large-scale installations, Tom uses steel and brightly colored plexiglass to create monumental sculptures. Tom's work stands out not only for its visual impact, but also for its commitment to accessibility and sustainability with his use of reclaimed materials. You may already be familiar with Tom's work, but just didn't know the artist behind the pieces. Fruin's largest installation to date, the We'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_02:

Hi, Siobhan.

SPEAKER_01:

Hi. Thank you so much for doing this today. You are very, very busy, I can see from all of my research I did this morning. And so I really appreciate you taking the time and chatting with me today.

SPEAKER_02:

It's a pleasure. I've actually listened to maybe five episodes just to get the flavor of what's going on. And I love your approach that it's just, you know, sort of casual and just getting the nitty gritty of stained glass. I'm honored that you opted to chat with me today.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I was kind of like, for a few seasons now, I really wanted to talk to you. But then I've been like, well, he's not a stained glass artist. But I think that there's enough similarities in what you're doing. And also, I believe, and I'll ask you this later, but I think the only reason you're not using glass a lot of times is because plexiglass is sturdier and is safer. And so... I think there's still the word glass in there, right? Plexiglass.

SPEAKER_02:

With a single one S. I mean, it's available. It's on the streets. It's dirtier. It's cheaper. It's easier. I can cut it on a table saw. And it kind of lends itself to the larger architectural stuff. So it's what's around me. And that's why I use it.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. So I'm going to start with reading your bio. Is that okay? Sure. and alternative energy. Furwen's largest installation to date, the Water Tower series, is installed on multiple rooftops across New York City and around the country. Other large-scale work has been exhibited in public plazas in Prague, Vienna, Copenhagen, and throughout the United States. Tom grew up in Los Angeles and lives and works in Brooklyn, New York. I actually, last time I was in New York, I don't remember exactly what bridge or what train I was on, but I saw one of your pieces going by and I took a photo of it and I was like, it's a sign. Now I really have to ask him to be on the podcast. And then once I started looking into your work, I realized that they're like, there's a lot of them.

SPEAKER_02:

I just did the 10th one, which was kind of my goal for that series to do 10. And it was in Japan, which I'm super excited about. But now it's 10 and I I think it took 12 years to get 10 of them out there in the world.

SPEAKER_01:

That's so incredible. And how old were you when you moved to the East Coast?

SPEAKER_02:

I was 21. Okay. I moved here in 96, which is a long time ago now. But... yeah i mean like straight out of college i just moved straight to new york

SPEAKER_01:

and you did go to did you go to art school it just says university of california

SPEAKER_02:

you know i was a psych major and then i converted to art uh so i could leave at the end after four years but i was basically double majoring and uh but i just i graduated with art yes

SPEAKER_01:

so did you think that you were going to kind of go in the direction of psych when you enrolled in college

SPEAKER_02:

no i knew i was doing art it was a It was a switcheroo.

SPEAKER_01:

Would you suggest other artists to go to formal art college?

SPEAKER_02:

I wouldn't. I don't know if it's something. I mean, I think the best part of being in school or in that environment is your peers and your professors and the access to facilities. Like, you know, if you do ceramics, there's kilns or something. But it's more just, you know, it's like an incubator time. But I don't think that any of the lectures I learned much, you know, just exposure to other artists and things. But I don't think it's... If you want to make art, just do it. I don't think I was taught how to do it. What I realized is I'm running a small business. And that's where it all shakes out. If I did anything, I probably should have gone to business school to help me figure out how to run this operation. And my goal is to create these things. And in order to produce them, I have to sell them to support the next one. And that's where it's at. there's a lot of academia, you know, in art and, and that's interesting. And, you know, I'm going to go like tomorrow, the Whitney Biennial is opening. And so I'm going to go and see what, what is the current survey of like what, what we are as a country producing in art or something. And it's, that's always very interesting, but I don't know that that has much to do with the day-to-day operation of, of being an artist.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So sorry, that's a roundabout answer, way of not answering your question.

SPEAKER_01:

No, no, it is a good answer. Have you had along the way, any business training or any resources that have really helped you? You

SPEAKER_02:

know... It's just, it's a struggle. Like, I work with now engineers. I have a render guy on my team. I realize it's a lot of, like, I've had lawyers in the past and lawyers, like, function to not make projects happen. They always advise me, don't do this. This is a bad thing. And so I just follow my gut. I have no business training, but I've been trained by business. I don't know if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01:

No, that makes perfect sense. It's a good way of putting it. You just have to tell those lawyers, it's a great idea. It's just plexiglass. It's okay. It's safe.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I have insurance. That's one thing. I am an LLC now, too. So there's a couple stopgaps to protect me. But no, there's just experience.

SPEAKER_01:

Can you explain in layman's terms to some of our listeners what an LLC is? Because I think that this question comes up a lot for people as to whether or not they need to go down. that road?

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, it separates the me from the entity that is my, my operation. So the LLC is it's, it's my wife and I are the co-owners of it. And it's just a, it's a company. It is for profit, although it's not profitable, but it's just like, I haven't sure that that company has insurance and that's what my studio pays rent through that, that company. But it's, it's just separates me from the company. So if, if something were to go wrong, if, if something fell over onto somebody or, you know, something, you know, that required any, you know, some, I don't even want to talk about it. But like, it's just, it separates me from the company.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, got it. Is your wife an artist as well?

SPEAKER_02:

She's an archivist. So she does stuff at the Morgan Library or other, like some auction houses occasionally. But no, she used to help out a lot more at the studio, but not currently.

SPEAKER_01:

Very cool. Did you meet her in LA?

SPEAKER_02:

I know I met her here in New York. And it's funny because I like against this table where you are, like right behind you, in my view, is 15 stained glass pieces from a church that I got mainly because Becky wanted to do something with them. And she went up to the cabin this weekend and she's been cleaning them up. And I can show you. I don't know if you can see this here. Oh,

SPEAKER_00:

yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And they're big. They're about seven feet tall by three feet wide. But she is trying to make something architectural with them.

SPEAKER_01:

Seems like they were like a patchwork, almost similar to your style.

SPEAKER_02:

This is also from that.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. So this one looks more like a depiction, an illustration of a temple.

SPEAKER_02:

It says in memory of in the center, but I don't know. They're from a church on Long Island or from Staten Island. But since I'm the... Since I'm findable, people just email me with, say like, our garage has all this stuff in it. You want to come get it. So that's why I have them.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you answer a lot of those emails and actually go get the stuff?

SPEAKER_02:

I do.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah. Repurpose is a big theme throughout your work. And so I'm not surprised to hear that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I'm a bit of a salvage person. And I like to... I like to see what's out there. I like to save it and reuse it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

That's very cool. You have some work in private collections, but the majority of it is either temporary or permanent large scale sculptural public art. Do you have an early memory of any public art that like left an imprint or a strong memory with you?

SPEAKER_02:

Not public art. It's embarrassing. I haven't figured out who this artist is. I remember something that I saw that it was at LACMA in Los Angeles, but this person had cutouts of metal and there was a candle in front of them and they were suspended. And so because they were kind of you know, floating in the, with the air currents, they were projecting these shadows of, I think they were figural. And I just remember seeing that as a kid going like, wow, art can be anything. You know, like, it didn't look expensive. It just, I was like shocked. Like, how can that be in a museum? You know, like they turn off the lights in this room to make this installation happen. I was intrigued by that.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, the light aspect of it really stuck with you Because that's definitely a big piece of your work. I read that you use reclaimed materials and alternative energy. Is that to light your pieces? I

SPEAKER_02:

did. I had an interest. You know, there's a sort of reaction against what they call plop art, you know, in public art of just putting something in a realm that is not responsive to its sighting. And I was really trying to make these water tower sculptures have like be solar powered. So they didn't have to be plugged in. And I thought that would be but also just makes sense. You know, if I wanted to put it in a big field instead of trenching power to get to the site, I thought it'd be cool if it could just be its own thing. So yes, that was a, I mean, all of it, you know, reclaimed material, but also I thought it was, it seemed strangely ill-considered if I, you know, had to pull power from a source. So I wanted it to be self-sufficient. But yes, that was the intent.

SPEAKER_01:

At Dan Peterson Art asks, what's the most compelling part of merging glass with public art. I'm gonna insert plexiglass. I think that he meant glass glass, but we're gonna say plexiglass.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, glass, I think is more challenging than plexiglass because it breaks, you know, and so does plexiglass. I luckily, like I use a lot of computer processes, so I actually laser cut for the water towers for the most part. Since it is, the design is generated in CAD, I can actually, you know, nest all the colors onto sheets and then laser cut them out and then I can address them. So if anything goes wrong, I can replace each piece. I tell that to the clients. It's never happened. happened but I tell people like should someone you know go ham with a coat hanger or something and break something then we can always replace it but I think you know glass is challenging in public art I think you know freestanding the the biggest problem is probably that it's two-sided you know like the the water towers have an outside and an inside but I've been playing with things that are freestanding and so both sides are you know equally viable in terms of the public so It's how do you suspend that glass in the structure? And I use like steel, welded steel. And then, you know, you have to coat the steel. The glass has to be like isolated in a way. Like I use, you know, I'm trying to figure that out. I'm trying to answer that question, but I'm not sure I have it solved. Because like things shrink at different rates, the steel and the plexiglass. So, you know, in temperature. So as it cools or heats, they expand or shrink. and I'm not sure what the parameters are yet. I'm trying to learn that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I've never thought about that part of it, the expansion with the tent.

SPEAKER_02:

It's a thing. It's definitely a thing. I have one on the roof and it's always making these ticking sounds because it's shrinking against the steel that's holding it. I don't know what, you know, someone would know, but I haven't figured it out yet. I know that I did something in Los Angeles and in the valley and it cools rapidly at Wow. Oh, my gosh. Wow. That is so

SPEAKER_01:

interesting.

SPEAKER_02:

And you're in L.A.,

SPEAKER_01:

yeah? I used to be in L.A. I'm actually in Portland, Oregon now.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Are you at a point now where you're still writing personally? I mean,

SPEAKER_02:

yeah, I still apply to things, of course. I get a lot of emails that my works that are out there in the world kind of function as billboards for my practice. So, you know, people see them, they're like, oh, I kind of want that, and then they reach out. But, I mean, it's all, the process is more or less the same. They're sort of like, hey, you know, are you interested in doing something? And then I basically apply,

SPEAKER_01:

yeah. Have there been any projects that were like the ones that got away i

SPEAKER_02:

think i probably land 20 of the ones i work on yeah so there's a there's a lot of renders that that are unrealized um but i think that the whole process is kind of fun because it's it's like i'm making the work anyway the once i do the renders it's it's it's similar to actually doing the work

SPEAKER_01:

so the program you use is mostly cad have you always used cad

SPEAKER_02:

i almost do other than emails and like this zoom call. I mostly don't do any computer stuff. I have my guy Matt again, and my render person helped me with that, but... I mean, one project we did recently was cool because they literally did like a virtual rendering where you put on the headset and you could be in the space. And we put my virtual sculpture in the space to experience it. And you can adjust the lighting. I mean, it's fun. I work with really smart people, but I don't do that at all.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I

SPEAKER_02:

try to just like be in the real world.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I feel you on that. Okay, I made a list of all the places that are permanent pieces. Please correct me if some of these are incorrect. Shanghai, China. Is it Beppu City, Japan? Is that how you say it? New York, of course. Chevy Chase, Maryland. Hopewell Junction, New York. Cincinnati, Ohio. There's four water towers in Brooklyn. There's one house in North Brooklyn Farms. Let's see, there's three water towers. One is atop your studio, which you can clearly see from the Manhattan Bridge. One at Domino's Sugar Factory. and one at Greenpoint on top of the Greenpoint Beer and Ale Brewery. Lincoln, Nebraska. Long Island, New York. Alexandria, Virginia. Oakland, California. Cambridge, Massachusetts. Jeju, South Korea. Detroit, Michigan. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Queens, New York. Fort Worth, Texas, which is a really beautiful windmill. Lake Nona, Florida. New Orleans, Louisiana. Pleasant Prairie, Wisconsin. and Buenos Aires, Argentina. That's a lot.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's largely correct. Some of the New York, there was some inaccuracies in the New York part, but that's fine.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Well, let's talk about the permanent ones that are in New York. Is the sale permanent?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, that's at the Syosset station for the LIRR stop.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. And where else are the ones in New York that I missed? Oh,

SPEAKER_02:

no. Well, I've done a bunch of lobbies for developers. So there's some permanent um, publicly accessible, you know, lobbies, uh, is two, one in Queens, one in Brooklyn, maybe there's two in Queens. Uh, but, and then the, you mentioned the water tower on my roof that was in my old studio when I was in Dumbo. I, I now have a house sculpture on this studio roof, but the water tower is still there in Dumbo. There are three water towers in Brooklyn, um, that are viewable. Uh, and the one that's on the, the Greenpoint beer and ale, you can actually like eat underneath it. It's a, it's, it's accessible. So it's cool.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. That's really cool. Anika Vondimov did an installation at a brewery that was in Austin, Texas that I went to. And it was also, you could like eat underneath it. And it was really cool because there was just like these splashes of color all over everybody's face.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's cool.

SPEAKER_01:

It was really neat.

SPEAKER_02:

I'll check that out.

SPEAKER_01:

So for the water towers, are the bases from old water towers that were already there and you just replaced the top part? Or do you construct the whole thing from scratch?

SPEAKER_02:

I typically construct the whole thing. The one that's in Milwaukee was an original base. I think it's 45 feet tall. And we used a crane to bring the sculpture to put on that base. It was very dramatic and cool to be there when that happened. But for the most part, they're all... Like I, even behind us is a base. Like I like the engineering. I like that steel work to make the whole structure.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I saw a crane being used to lift a panel into the Japanese one as

SPEAKER_02:

well.

SPEAKER_01:

So which one of your towers is the largest and which one is the smallest?

SPEAKER_02:

They're all, for the most part, they're 10 foot diameter by 14 feet tall. The first one that I built in Dumbo, Brooklyn, I actually was able to go up on that roof and I measured the existing towers. And I wanted mine to just blend in. So I made it the in-between size of the existing water tower. So one was big, one was small, and I made mine just, you know, my size. And that's become the standard size. The one that's in Milwaukee is a 19 foot diameter by 23 feet tall. So that's the biggest one. And it's big. Like if you're, you know, when you're inside, you're like, you know, it's like you could put a small house inside of it. It feels cool.

SPEAKER_01:

That's so crazy. Are there some that are so large that they need to be fabricated in spaces outside of your studio? Because I saw... The Chevy Chase streetcar canopy in one post, and it was almost like an airplane hangar space that was being put together.

SPEAKER_02:

That is a friend of mine around the corner from the studio. And yeah, for logistical reasons, we did it there. But I produced all the plexiglass here and brought it there. It's called Surrett Metalworks, but they're just good friends of mine that are literally around the corner. And I used to have a studio in that space. So we're like, you know, old friends and collaborators. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's awesome. There's another huge one. It's not a water tower, but it's called the Crown of Foshan. It's located along the Dongping River in the Guangdong province in China. How this one is crazy. You just finished it recently. And so the footage of it is so impressive. How did this project start? Where did the idea of a crown come from? Walk me through this one.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. So UAP, I'm not even sure what that stands for, but they are a fabricating, art fabricators. And now they have a curational arm and a, like they liaise with developers. And so someone might say like, we want a big sculpture. We don't want to deal with a headache. Can you find it, you know, produce it, install Turnkey, everything. I know them just because they're in New York. They're also in Shanghai and in Australia. They just sent me an email saying that we have this client who likes your stuff. We went on a Zoom and they started to describe what they were looking for. Literally, in that initial phone call, I came up with a concept. They were describing themselves as being a maritime community, but they wanted to be sort of the jewel of their, of this region. And there's also Jade production. And interestingly, I think Bruce Lee is from there. So I just like in the phone call, I was like, I conceived of the idea and I just, you know, produced some renders of it and was selected to do it. And then they produced it. They made the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. That was my next question. Is that like, do you have a team that goes for installations or does that differ sometimes with depending on the client and what they want?

SPEAKER_02:

So I, I mean, uh, I could, you know, walk you through here, but I make, usually I make everything, uh, and that I enjoy that like being very hands-on. Um, but this one, I, I, I did nothing. Uh, it was a lot and same with the one in, uh, in Beppu, Japan, there was, um, we produced all the, the, the files that, that created the work. And then they were very, like, they literally went out and collected all the plexiglass, all found materials in the same way I would do it and signage. And, and it was it was fun it was difficult you know there's a lot of emails a lot of um a lot of um not skype what's it called whatsapp a lot of whatsapp but uh i think it it turned out good and and a lot of the things that um the the hardships became a part of the piece you know it was like that that that reality of finding materials and not finding a certain color and um it was fun they were very um they were game the the the my my My co-producers, I guess, of that were up for the challenge. But the one in China, I haven't been there yet and they haven't invited me. I'm like waiting for that to have that eventuality. But it was, as I said, UAP, turnkey, they just did the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. Was it as collaborative as the Japanese one where they sourced everything and you kind of like walked with them along in the whole process? Was the Chinese one a little bit more like just send us the files and then we'll take the rest?

SPEAKER_02:

So the crown of Foshan, there was a lot of upfront work trying to, and especially with the colors and then sourcing it locally. And I was like, I'm pretty sure this plexiglass is made there. Like, I don't understand why you wouldn't have the colors that I have at home. access to here, but there was a lot of like prep work, uh, and then COVID happened. And, and then there was, you know, almost, you know, not much communication. I occasionally got pictures of seeing how it was happening, but it, you know, once it was decided on, it was, it was just being made. Uh, the one in Japan was more collaborative and, and we were, you know, more hands-on and, you know, I went there for the install and all of that. Uh, but, um, And that's a totally new process for me because I'm very, you know, hands-on. Like, my hands are dirty as we talk. I'm always, you know, I'm covered in plexiglass dust. I'm a working artist.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, totally. Have you had any– well, actually, with the Japanese project and with the Chinese project– Since they're the ones who are putting it together and they're the ones who are taking control of the fabrication, does your insurance still have anything to do with it, with that LLC that we mentioned earlier? Or is it just like once it's, then it was under their umbrella?

SPEAKER_02:

What a terrible question. I have no idea. I hope not. I don't know. I mean, the thing, by using engineers, there is a bit of a fail-safe. You know, like I'm not too concerned about things blowing off buildings. I think it's okay, but I don't believe that I have any exposure in

SPEAKER_00:

terms

SPEAKER_02:

of anything that's happened. I have no idea, but I don't know. I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, good. Have you had any structural fails ever? No.

SPEAKER_02:

No.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_02:

There's some surface failures, like I think in, I shouldn't even talk about it. But yeah, I mean, the thing about putting stuff in the outdoor world is, I don't know, it's not entropy, but, you know, it's tough out there. Like the world functions to break things down. And so, you know, things need to be repainted or things need to be, Some plexiglass fades, I guess, some of it. Some things crack. But for the most part, nothing catastrophic has happened.

SPEAKER_01:

Tell me about the piece that was in Hoboken. Oh,

SPEAKER_02:

you mean that image with it flooded?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

That was cool. I don't know who took that, but it was a great shot. And I think that only happened for a brief moment where it looks like, and there was all the driftwood and it looked very dramatic. I have a similar image of the first water tower when Sandy the super storm happened in Brooklyn where like the whole roof was ripped apart and the sculptures there I kind of took it like even at an angle to make it more dramatic but the sculptures are they're fine they're engineered that one in Hoboken was on a base which was weighted and that actually the base functioned to keep it out of the flood so it flooded but the sculpture was not touched by the water and I think like after that image you know the tie went back out and the water went away and it was all everything was fine

SPEAKER_01:

it was really dramatic looking um which ones do you wait a lot of them how do you choose which ones to wait just like the smaller ones

SPEAKER_02:

that's for like uh it depends on the well what the engineers tell me if it's on a waterfront and if it's if it's not going to be anchored uh like sometimes they need anchoring uh but like the water tower ones like the base is is connected to the to the building and then you connect the sculpture to the base. But, uh, so if you're just doing a temporary installation and it's not anchored, then it depends on what they tell you. Like if it's a one day thing, they'll just be like, okay, it's fine. If it's a, if it's a three month thing, they'll say like, we want it to be, you know, locked into the earth.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. How would you wait it if it's not anchored?

SPEAKER_02:

Uh, I mean, I've actually done one where I put like sandbags in the corners of them, but, uh, it's, it's, uh, I mean, it depends on what they advise and that that's, it does. I sleep well at night. I know everything's

SPEAKER_01:

safe. Okay, good. So sometimes you use the plexiglass. Sometimes you use street signs, found street signs. On April 26th, 2022, you posted 10 years old, which I guess now I'll be 12 years old. The letters in this 50-foot sign are composed from hand-painted fruit and pizza, air conditioning repair advertisements, warnings and phone numbers that were all found in the Lower East Side, the Bowery and front street pizza taken from construction dumpsters and discovered on the street. I mean, a 50-foot sign is pretty large. It's for a hotel. What's the name of the hotel?

SPEAKER_02:

It's called Wythe Hotel.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Is that the biggest street sign piece you did?

SPEAKER_02:

Um... Yes, with signage, yes. I think the roof on that is 75 feet and the signage itself is 50 feet of that facade. They were very cool, still close friends of mine. I think the developer kind of hired me just to make the sign. And then I brought them to the studio and pitched my concept. And they were like really sort of scratching their heads about it. But they decided, they acquiesced and said like, sure, go ahead and do your crazy sign. Which is funny because the building was covered in graffiti. And I think in a way that they were sort of distilling it and curating down the mess to something controllable. And I snuck it in there.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. That's incredible. It's really cool looking. And it's obviously still there. It's withstood the test of time. Have you had to replace any pieces in that one?

SPEAKER_02:

No, no, no. I mean, those signs have already been out in the world for 50 years. And then I just sort of cut them up and repatched them. Apparently, there was no permit for that size sign in that neighborhood. It's like a Times Square sort of size and light. But it is neon. And I've done a lot of stuff with neon. But they've started lighting it. again at night. So it's kind of a cool beacon if you're in Williamsburg.

SPEAKER_01:

That's very cool. Do you find yourself not using street signs as much anymore? I've noticed in your most recent work, I haven't seen as much of the signage.

SPEAKER_02:

I think it was on a bit of a hiatus, but I've started to bring it back. So it's now the signs are in everything I'm doing.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, cool. So...

SPEAKER_02:

And plexiglass signage, too.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, yes. Which is sort

SPEAKER_02:

of different. I've been finding a Chinese restaurant will go out of business and they'll throw out the sign and I'll capture it. So, I mean, it's important that it's reclaimed to me a little bit as a patina that you can't fake. So I've been really trying to use more of that material.

SPEAKER_01:

That's amazing. I knew... that plexiglass was acrylic or acrylic was plexiglass, but I didn't know much anything about that. So I actually looked it up and I found this little excerpt from the website glassgenius.com and I felt like it was a great Cliff Notes version of the answer. So I'm going to read it. Plexiglass has a generic trademark used for acrylic sheets, just like the super glue has a trademark used for glue. Plexiglass is a transparent thermoplastic that is a strong and durable alternative to glass. For this reason, it has a applications, such as windows, planes, aquariums, LCD screens, and modern furniture. Though glass is less costly and elegant, acrylic sheets are highly durable and shatter-resistant. Moreover, they are impact-resistant, which makes them favorable for areas that are prone to storms or even hurricanes. Basically, the difference of plexiglass and acrylic doesn't lie in the material, but in the manufacturing process. Acrylic sheet manufacturing involves either of two techniques—extra Extrusion or cell casting. With the former technique, the process is continuously carried out to make the acrylic sheet. In contrast, the cell casting technique involves a strenuous amount of effort, time, resources, and cost. For this reason, the latter process is a bit more expensive, but gives more quality and durability. But for the plexiglass that you're using that's newer, that you're laser cutting, are you casting your own acrylic?

SPEAKER_02:

Gosh, no. No, no, no. So you just schooled me on the material more than I know myself. I mean, it's just, I don't even know. It's not for any, I'm not like a plastic lover or something. It is just what I happen to be using. I have sort of played with the idea of making in my own colors because there's some things that lack. Like I'm looking for more pinks. I had a T-Mobile color that I really liked that apparently was made for that company that I love and it's hard to find. But they're straight off the shelf colors that I get on Canal Street in the city or there's some other, especially in California, there's some producers that make interesting things. But no, I don't know much about it. how it's made or where it comes from. At

SPEAKER_01:

soft underscore shapes, who has also been on the podcast. How does someone get into acrylic is her question.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, I think that the cool thing about, uh, Lexi acrylic is that you can cut it with a wood, woodworking tools. So I just cut it and you also cut aluminum, which I don't know if people know that like aluminum stuff, you can literally cut on a chop saw. So, but like, you know, you take a piece of plexiglass, I'm almost surprised there's not one here, but I have like the lid from, my Chinese lunch here. But I mean, you can cut this up and just use it. It's so, it's, I mean, this you could sew on a sewing machine.

SPEAKER_00:

I

SPEAKER_02:

think like the bar for entry, it's much easier than glass. You don't need any special tools. You know, you just, I mean, and I, like the first water tower, I thought maybe I had to bend the plexiglass to form that arc. And so I had a electric oven in the studio and I was like cooking the sheets and trying to make them relaxed to that, that 10 degree arc. But it's just so malleable. It's just easy. There's, there's no, I wouldn't say there's any, nothing stopping you from working with it. Unlike glass, you know, glass, it cuts you and it's, you know, it's hard and it breaks. And I've done some things with glass, mostly salvaged glass from Detroit, but I, plexiglass is way more malleable, easier to work with.

SPEAKER_01:

At what point did you get a laser cutter?

SPEAKER_02:

Maybe a year ago, the person that I had laser cutting my stuff offered me his machine when he would he wanted to upgrade. I mean, it's not fair because I know you have a podcast, but like that thing behind me is, you know, generated from a computer file that is based on a quilt that I made from wristbands. And I just sort of expanded the scale of it. And it's the other like this one that's behind me up up there. It's all just squares, basically, that I cut from sheets. But when I started working with more organic source material of quilts, it just made sense to use the laser cutting. So I didn't have to do those organic shapes on my own by hand. But I love the laser. It's cool. Again, I'm not a computer person. So again, this is Matt, who is largely operating the machine. But it's a fun tool And I'm looking into trying to make some more sort of mass produced products or something or, you know, not exactly artwork, but something that could be like a, you know, an object that that could be repeated. Yeah, that's what I'm hoping to go with that with that tool.

SPEAKER_01:

That's so amazing. Are there any other points where you found a tool or like finally acquired a tool where you were like, wow, this just shaved a massive amount of work off of my process?

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't know. I mean, I'm a tool guy. Like I like tools. I like hand tools, especially like things that don't need to be plugged in. There are some things that make more sense that like, you know, instead of a drill press to have like a little punch for making holes and things. But yeah. I mean, what I'm doing right now in the studio is upgrading is the sound quality because I find that it's so much more fun when I'm in the shop, like grinding, if I can hear the sound better. So I've been like the upgrades I'm doing right now are like getting better speakers, you know, getting a better system.

SPEAKER_01:

Wait, you're amplifying the sounds of the tools so you can hear

SPEAKER_02:

it better? No, no, no, the music.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh,

SPEAKER_02:

okay. That would be cool and weird.

SPEAKER_01:

That would be cool and weird. Let's see here.

SPEAKER_02:

You've prepared questions for me. I'm like, I'm very honored to be on your podcast. I didn't know you'd be doing like, you know, preparing for this.

SPEAKER_01:

I think that every episode's a little different, right? Like sometimes it's just like a conversation like that meanders. And then sometimes I'm like, you need to tell me, like I have a list of questions and I need answers. And this is one of those times where I'm just so curious and interested in what you're doing. I think it's so cool. I'm very impressed. And so, yeah, I'm gonna nerd out about it. I'm sure

SPEAKER_02:

your audience is kind of like, well, Why are we, why are we listening to this guys?

SPEAKER_01:

No, no. I mean, you know, there's a whole spectrum of like listeners and some of them want more of this than the other. And then some of them want more of the other. So, you know, there's something here for everybody. Let's see. What was my next question? Oh, so you're using steel for your frames. Is that correct?

UNKNOWN:

Correct. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Can you patina steel? Like, how are you, like, making them black afterwards?

SPEAKER_02:

So, I mean, kind of getting into the weeds, but, like, the structural steel, the supports, I paint with Rust-Oleum, oil-based. The actual sculpture surfaces, I powder coat, which is, so I send it out, it gets sandblasted, it gets zinced, and then it gets powder coated. Wow. Very robust. Like, that is not failed yet that as a surface in the public uh sphere so it's a um i don't there i mean there's one over there but like it's a it's it's a i use a marine grade uh powder coating and they wet zinc it dry zinc it it's like a very robust surface which which i'm satisfied with

SPEAKER_01:

who does that

SPEAKER_02:

It's a place in Pennsylvania that I go to called Van Industries. I don't know. They make like dune buggies. Oh, wow. So I don't know exactly how I found them, but they're very patient with me.

SPEAKER_01:

And are you like shipping all the pieces over and then shipping them back? Yeah, we drive it down.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. Yeah. Okay. It's not that big of a deal. I've got a Yukon. Sometimes multiple trips.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Where do you buy your supplies? It's just steel. I mean, I guess– It's like– No, no,

SPEAKER_02:

no. It's called Eastern. It's like welding stuff. It's just all very... Like the people that make railings for your, it's just, this is normal stuff. It's just out there. It's not at Home Depot, but there's like metal supply shops and I just go get it.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. With the theme of repurpose in your work, are you also reusing all the scrap from every single project? Like you just have it all stored and you just keep continuously like taking from that? I

SPEAKER_02:

do. It's a hassle. But I mean, that's one thing with scale. So that, you know, you make the bigger ones that you end up with smaller scraps. And then I make smaller ones and use the scraps in the smaller ones.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Where do you store everything? Do you store it in the same space as your studio or do you have like a different place just for storage?

SPEAKER_02:

I'm lucky I have a big studio, but I have all these like HDX bins and and we kind of separating by color. I mean, even just, you know, today I was cutting. it's all around. It's, it's all, and some things like the signs kind of get shelved, but it's all, it's all here. Yeah. It has to be, you know, it to be like often I'll like, we'll make a small one and I say, let's use the same, you know, color scheme as the, as the factory that I just made. So, so it's all kind of in, in steps and it gets distilled down to smaller and smaller pieces.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Do you ever make smaller ones as practice for the big ones?

SPEAKER_02:

I do it in reverse. I tell people that I make the smaller ones in practice for the big ones, but it's actually the opposite. I call them color studies to develop a palette for the larger ones, but it's kind of a lie. They're just sort of smaller ones.

SPEAKER_01:

Your secret's totally safe with me. Is that the reason you moved into a larger studio or a different studio is because it's larger than the one you had in Dumbo?

SPEAKER_02:

You know, in Dumbo, I had a really like a sweetheart deal for a long time. And eventually they They just encouraged me to spread my wings. And so I moved out. But no, I mean, I've always it's funny. Even there, I kept trying to like I was getting bigger spaces to try and make bigger work. And it's sort of a punishing cycle. Like you make big things and you're stuck with big things. But I think I've always been trying to just make, you know, outdoor, you know, architectural scale stuff. So that's why I have the big space.

SPEAKER_01:

Would you ever build a house? Would you ever do anything else structurally outside of what you're doing now? I

SPEAKER_02:

think so, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that would be really cool. At Karina Oswald, who also is on the podcast this season, I've got a lot of alumni coming through here. Would you ever consider making your pieces with sheet glass? You kind of answered this earlier, but I'm curious if you have any like, larger projects that you have glass specifically in mind or if you're just like nope just keep away i do my thing i

SPEAKER_02:

mean i i i look forward to working with glass to be honest i i think that is the future uh for things that are you know meant to have more longevity or or have um different, you know, for instance, like tempered glass, it, you know, if it's in a, in a public setting or I think that that is probably where, where it should go eventually. But, um, I, I tend to be sort of quick and dirty and cheap. So that's why I'm just using these materials that I have now that there it's all, it's, it just seems very, uh, available, you know, like to me, it's not, there's nothing I don't need to, you know, I can just order sheets, uh, you know, and they'll come and I just drag it off the truck. It's There's nothing precious about it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah. Do you ever make something just for you or your family?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. I mean, I like to think all of it is just for me and my family. I've done, there's a transom over the parlor doors in our house that I made as another of these sort of starburst things in my bedroom. Like a lot of it, my daughter actually just said like, Dad, do you think you, if you made another one, like, would you maybe consider just putting it in my room? And I was like, okay, that's cute. But, you know, a lot of it, I like to think it's not ever for the client. Of course, sometimes they are specifically, but I try to have a separate practice where I'm just making things. And then I sometimes people ask if there's a menu or a list or available works and then I can show that to them. But I'm always doing stuff just to satisfy my own, you know, desires.

SPEAKER_01:

That's so important. I'm really glad to hear you do that because a lot of artists forget to and it's to their detriment. Like it's not healthy not to.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, it really informs the things that I'm doing. I mean, it's important. I mean, I think that's where my practice is at. I'm trying to make sure that I keep making things for myself. And that is what I think ultimately the client wants. The stuff that I'm making for myself is what... I mean, that's what they're looking for is my voice. Ultimately, you see something from 10 years ago and they want the same thing. That happens a lot. But for the most part, they're like, where are you now? What's happening in your own investigation?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. How old is your daughter?

SPEAKER_02:

She's nine. She just turned nine last weekend. Oh,

SPEAKER_01:

I have my daughter's turning nine this week.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Have you made anything with your daughter? I

SPEAKER_02:

have drawings. Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

But nothing with the plexiglass yet or signs?

SPEAKER_02:

Not yet. No, we make some music together.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, you make music together. We

SPEAKER_02:

have family band practice in the studio, which is just hilarious. But but no, nothing, nothing concrete. She's actually my daughter. I have a 10 year old boy as well. Kat is very artistic. Like she's very creative, expressive.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So does she play any instruments or is she just vocals?

SPEAKER_02:

She's a vocalist. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. That's so funny. My daughter too. She's a vocalist. She goes to school of rock. She's in a band.

SPEAKER_02:

That's so cool.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. That's pretty fun. So with so much of your work, I noticed the idea of them comes from urban environments, which makes sense because it sounds like you have lived your life in this setting. Is there a world or maybe down the timeline where Tom moves to the countryside, becomes a country mouse and just makes work based on his surroundings of nature.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, I've often thought this myself. We do have a cabin and I do forging there and some aluminum casting stuff. Also woodworking, obviously. I don't know. I mean, I have self-identified as being sort of an urban person, but I am very responsive to my surroundings. So I do think that... If I were in the country, I'd be making more country things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I could see a patchwork tree popping up somewhere randomly in the middle of a forest, you know?

SPEAKER_00:

Definitely. Or maybe

SPEAKER_01:

like a bridge, maybe like a patchwork, like colorful bridge in the middle over like a little creek. Are they sturdy enough to stand on?

SPEAKER_02:

Like water tower. Oh,

SPEAKER_01:

okay. Yeah, I could see that too.

SPEAKER_02:

Like a fire heated hot tub or something.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. Oh, that would be really nice. There's just one more piece I wanted to ask you about. We didn't really talk about... a lot of your artwork that is just found objects that's not specifically like these larger structures. But on September 7th, 2023, you posted, nice to see this work from my quilt series, the home of a London collector made from found drug bags and thread. How did you find that many drug bags? Did you have to like go to like the police and did they pull some for you from like their evidence lockers?

SPEAKER_02:

So I go out in the mornings and collect them, you know, like acorns or something. I go out and Gosh. So

SPEAKER_00:

many.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. I did a whole series of those. And that actually informs the composition of these other pieces. The sort of patchwork patterning derived from those quilts that I made from those found materials.

SPEAKER_01:

So beautiful and so amazing that that's what it's made from. And... I can't believe you found so many. That's wild.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I mean, I do, I did like a job. Like I would go out in the mornings, like every morning and collect them. But yeah, they're a little postage size, postage stamp sized, you know, glassine or plastic bags. And yeah, I composed them and sewed them together. And that, that, that they were, it was a whole series of works where I was making quilts or flags that were meant to be emblematic of that neighborhood.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. And for the sewing, are you just doing like really basic stitches or do you, are you like.

SPEAKER_02:

It's a machine. I do zigzag stitch on a... I mean, my favorite machine is Dressmaker is the brand. I don't know. I haven't seen too many of them, but it's a cast iron machine.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, cool. Heavy. Well, are you ready for your final three questions?

SPEAKER_02:

But I didn't prepare for them, but I think so, yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Well, we'll do the best that we can and no pressure. It's not that precious. It's okay. Who is your favorite artist outside of our world, this world?

SPEAKER_02:

I think my favorite artist is a local guy named David Hammons here in New York. He does a lot of cool, I mean, it's conceptual and it's identity-based stuff, but it's sculpture. And he's really cool. Like, you should check him out if you haven't. There's one famous image of him where he's selling snowballs on the sidewalk.

SPEAKER_01:

I have seen that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. He's really cool. He does a lot of stuff. And he's, like, he's all over the map. He's smart. Really smart guy.

SPEAKER_01:

And he's still, he's one of your neighbors?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, he's alive. He's just here in New York. I don't know him. I've never met him. Not yet. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I always have the links to these artists in the show notes, so we can all check them out. The next one is, who's your favorite... Stained glass artists, if you have one, I mean, I guess this one's a little bit more niche, but if you're like going to mention somebody that's not exactly stained glass, then I think we can wiggle the rules a little bit more here today.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, so I was, I did have an answer for that. It's not, well, so there's a, around the corner from me is a shop called Urban Glass. Yeah. And the guy who runs that is named David. And, and he's like, he's so off the beat. Like he's, he's such an interesting, like intelligent person who knows, like he also, they have a, a neon facility in there as well. And, uh, his name's David. I think it's Ablo. I'm not sure. I'll find, I'll find out his real name, but he, he's like a constant resource and source of, uh, of inspiration as well. Like I, I was doing a neon project and I wanted it to be kind of failing, like do the, and he was like, oh, you know what you need is a resistor and you put it on the line and he started like get really technical and it And I was like, what are you even talking about? And then he, like, starts talking about the different gases. And, like, he's just– the guy is, like– and I don't know that he would consider himself an artist, but he is, like– he, like, he kind of helms this great, like, mad ship. And they have, like, a bunch of glass, you know, glory holes or whatever. Like, this whole thing, it's just shocking. Like, you open the door, and it's a zoo of artistic creation, like a manic, you know, situation, all these people there. So he, I know this is like kind of not an answer, but that, that would be the guy that I think would be, I mean, or on the podcast or whatever, he'd be like super interesting to talk to. Cause he's like the, the things he's talking about all the time. I listened to one of your podcasts and they were talking about the float glass on the tin and how you can, you know, put the like zinc on the tin side to make the, and I was like, that's, that's how he, he would know all about that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

Was it Judith Schechter's episode?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I think so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. The third question is what are your five to 10 year goals?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, uh, you know, I hope to put more things out there in the world. Um, I hope to keep doing what I'm doing. Like really like structurally just this, this reality is, uh, is tenuous. And I, I, I, I'm like, uh, I feel very lucky to be doing what I'm doing to make things to put out there in the world. Um, I was trying to figure out how to make one of the sculptures be more, uh, waterproof or, you know, habitable. Someone had a concept of making these sculptures as like Airbnbs on a property. And I was like, that's a cool concept, you know, like even, you know, maybe it's not the best apartment, but like if you could make a sculpture that you could actually sleep in, if it was raining and be fine, or if it was warm, you know, inside, I'm trying to figure that out a little bit. Um, Yeah, I'll leave it there.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Have you seen Neely Cooper's glass cabin in New Jersey? I

SPEAKER_02:

don't know that I have, no.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, she has Neely Cooper. Yeah, it's made all out of like reclaimed wood, but it's like a glass cabin and she's replaced all the paints with really incredible like flora and fauna and crystals and mushrooms and spider webs and a huge monarch butterfly. It's so beautiful. and it's on her property in New Jersey and she actually goes out there and like she doesn't work in there it's not her studio but she reads out there and sleeps out there when the weather is nice enough you should check it out

SPEAKER_02:

that's really cool I'm seeing it now it's great

SPEAKER_01:

yeah

SPEAKER_02:

I'll have to reach out. Do you know her?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, she was actually the very first guest on the podcast. She's episode number one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I saw her cabin and it's so gorgeous. And it's... She was my favorite artist. And so she randomly I was having an art show in the Berkshires and she was coming through the Berkshires and she came to my art show. And so I asked her there, will you be I think I'm going to start a podcast. I don't even have a name for it yet. But would you come on to it? And she was like, yeah, totally. And then that's kind of like the moment that the podcast became like a real thing when she said yes, because I was like, well, now I'm doing it. So I have a guest and everything.

SPEAKER_02:

that's great I did I checked out your art as well it's very cool

SPEAKER_01:

thank you I appreciate that well Tom your work is so colorful it brings so much energy and magic to every place that it's in and now that I've met you I can see why because you are joy you are magic and you have brought so much good energy into our chat today so thank you so much I

SPEAKER_02:

really appreciate it it's been it's been really fun thank you

SPEAKER_01:

have a wonderful and productive day in the studio today and I'll talk to you soon. To see more of Tom's work, his Instagram is at Tom Fruin. That's T-O-M-F-R-U-I-N. And mine is at Runa Glassworks. For a lucky Patreon member, Tom is gifting some stickers and one of his glass patchwork candles. The best part is as the candle burns down, the colors glow through the glass. It's so pretty. I'll be doing a drawing for that 12 days from the release of this episode. Next week, I'm speaking with artist Karina Oswald from Seattle, Washington. You're not going to want to miss it. until then have a wonderful week thank you for listening bye friends